I want to apologize for not doing the weekly Parsha post this week. As you can see, I've gotten sidetracked with the issue of "the First Time" and I only have so much time in the day to do this blog. Please forgive me.
I have so far identified the Rambam, the Rif, and the Ra'avad as Rishonim who only considered a new bride as a Niddah if there was actual bleeding during the first intercourse. I would now like to add another source that I found this morning. Rabbi Eliezer ben Samuel of Metz (died 1175) writes as follows (my translation):
the laws of the blood of the hymen, even though it comes from the sides (of her vagina and not the uterus) and is pure, nonetheless the Sages prohibited the couple from having a second intercourse in order that one doesn't confuse it with the blood of the uterus, as it says in Niddah (he goes on to quote the gemara that one must separate after the first intercourse) ...(Sefer Yereim 26:8)
Rabbi Eliezer of Metz is an early Ashkenazi Posek and there are two important points in his words:
- He clearly writes that the Talmud is concerned about the blood of the hymenal tearing. There is no reference at all to a prohibition if there is no bleeding. In this he is similar to the Rambam and the Rif who never recorded any prohibition of Niddah if there is no blood. Since he lived before the Ramban, Rashba, Ritva, Ran, Rosh etc. who were the ones who introduced this idea that even without blood they need to be concerned, this is not surprising at all.
- Rabbi Eliezer of Metz assumed that the reason for the rabbinic prohibition of hymenal bleeding was because of the possibility of confusing this blood with true Niddah blood, not because of "rov" (majority)".
At risk of being repetitive, let me summarize the steps that got us to where we are, in chronological order. Feel free to skip this summary if you have been following the blog until now and have it all clear in your head.
- Hymenal bleeding is not menstrual blood, and therefore, according to the Mishna, a woman who has bleeding from her hymen is not considered a Niddah.
- The later Rabbis of the Talmud enacted a stringency that considered hymenal bleeding to be Niddah blood and therefore they decreed that after the first intercourse, if there is bleeding, the couple must separate as if she was a niddah. Three possible reasons were given for this stringency
- One possible reason, which is inferred in the Yerushalmi, was that there is a concern that maybe there is some menstrual blood mixed in with the hymenal blood, or that people may confuse the two types of blood.
- Another possible reason, is that the pain of hymenal tearing might induce uterine bleeding (Sefer Yereim)
- The third potential reason, was the concern that a new groom will not be able to differentiate between the different menstrual statuses of women at different ages, which was quite a complex set of rules, so they made a blanket prohibition on all hymenal bleeding (Rosh and others)
- Once the Talmud established that we consider hymenal blood to have the status of menstrual blood, many Rishonim (Ramban, Rashba, Rosh and more) were of the opinion that the majority of women have hymenal bleeding on the first incidence of sexual intercourse. Therefore, they felt that even if the couple does not see any bleeding, we assume that there must have been a small amount of blood and it just got lost, and thus the couple must separate as if there was some bleeding.
- Other Rishonim (Rambam, Rif, Ra'avad, Sefer Yereim) wrote that the only time a couple must separate is when there is actual bleeding at the time of the first intercourse.
- The SA was stringent and declared that the couple must separate after the first intercourse regardless of whether or not there was any bleeding, while the Rama cited the lenient opinions and felt that one need only be stringent after there was a complete and full intercourse, until then the couple may remain together and engage in sexual activities not including full intercourse
even if they had intercourse and did not find any bleeding since most women do have bleeding from their hymen (at first intercourse) we suspect that maybe there really was a tiny drop of blood like (the size of) a mustard seed and it just got lost, or maybe it got covered up in the semen. (Rosh)Even if the couple has intercourse and they did not find any blood at all, he still must separate from her , this is because most women have hymenal bleeding (at their first intercourse) so we suspect that she may have had a small drop of blood like a mustard seed and it got lost ... (Rashba Torat Habayit)
There are those who say that when the Gemara says, “he performs the mitzvah act of intercourse and separates,” it makes no difference if he had intercourse and found blood or if he had intercourse and did not find blood, for we are concerned that due to the pain of the [rupturing] of the hymen, uterine blood, which is impure, will flow. Others hold that [she is rendered a niddah]only when he had intercourse [with her] and discovered blood, but if no blood was discovered, he does not have to separate. It makes sense to be lenient in cases where she did a thorough checking in the “outer house” (vagina), and saw nothing red… And it appears to me that it was as a result of this stringency (to treat hymenal blood as menstrual blood), that the women of Rebbe’s household who crushed [their hymen with their fingers] had adopted such a practice (Yevamot 34b), so that no doubt should arise [that they might be a niddah] when they had the first act of intercourse. (ra'avad Balalei Hanefesh, Sha'ar Haperishah:3)
Several important points must be noted:
- As we already knew, the Ra'avad held that the newlywed couple need not separate from each other unless there is bleeding
- The Ra'avad assumes that the reason for the stringency of those who hold that a couple must separate even without bleeding is not because of a "Rov" (the assumption that most women have hymenal bleeding at first intercourse). Rather, he assumes that they were concerned that hymenal tearing might cause pain that then might cause uterine bleeding! He then dismisses this concern. So the Ra'avad never even entertained the notion of "rov"!
- The Ra'avad allows for another leniency. When a woman uses her fingers prior to marriage to remove her hymen, she then would have the status of one who is no longer a halachic "virgin" and would therefore no longer even have to worry about separating after the first intercourse.
I was asked about an individual who, when it was not possible for him to have the first act of intercourse with his wife because the opening (vagina) was exceedingly sealed, (this is a very rare condition where the vaginal opening is either closed off or almost closed off by the hymen, called "imperforate hymen" and it occurs in less than 1% of the population) and she needed a doctor to open the opening with an instrument and to remove the hymen, and if he doesn’t have intercourse on that day, the doctor said that there is a risk that it would seal again. Does this [the opening the hymen with an instrument] require that the couple separate until the woman has counted seven clean days and immersed [in a mikveh]?
I replied that she is permitted to her husband and does not require seven clean days and immersion. For, in actuality, the hymenal blood is in essence the blood of a wound [and should not, in principle, render the woman a niddah]. It was only when it was torn through intercourse that the Sages forbade [continued intercourse and physical touch], but not when it was ruptured by a stick or an instrument… Thus, the only case that we have [as problematic] is the case that the Sages forbade, which is only when the hymen is ruptured through intercourse.
Now, if as a result of his having intercourse with her after [this procedure], he (sic.) finds blood, then he must attribute it to the hymenal blood [with the standard law that] they will be required to separate until she counts seven clean days and immerses. If, however, he does not find blood, he is not required to separate, for we can assume that all the blood [of the hymen] has already exited [her body] as a result of the doctor’s procedure, even if the doctor says that he only made a small opening. (Iggrot Moshe, YD1:87)
- In the event that we know that the hymen was removed by some source other than previous intercourse, we no longer apply the rule that one must separate even if there is no blood after the first intercourse
- Rabbi Feinstein is not worried at all about the potential concern of there having been blood that might have come from the uterus which was mentioned by the Ra'avad, and he was also not worried that people might confuse the two. This makes sense because the Poskim, as we have seen (including the Ra'avad himself) rejected these concerns
- Rabbi Feinstein was still assuming that most women do have hymenal bleeding. He had no reason to question the general rule of the Poskim that requires separation even without bleeding.
I have a question about wasting seed. If a person arouses himself but doesn’t orgasm and then has a wet dream is this considered wasting seed or not?
ReplyDeleteI hope you had a chance to read my entire series on the "sin" of wasting seed. I explained at length there that the ionly time there is a "sin" is if the ejaculation is being purposefully done on a regular basis to avoid fulfilling the mitzvah of procreation. However, as long as this is not the case, especially in the case of a wet dream which is not under anyones control, there is no sin involved at all. When you mention arousing oneself, if this is done deliberately, it is frowned upon by the authorities because it can, eventually, lead one to sin. But in and of itself, an arousal that happens naturally is simply normal, not a sin. An arousal that one brings upon himself deliberately is not recommended by the rabbis, because of the potential that it can lead in the wrong direction. Please see all of my posts on the topic for more details.
ReplyDeleteyou wroet:
ReplyDelete'''The misconception that women usually bleed with their first intercourse is a myth that was widespread during the times of the Rishonim. It still remains widespread among many cultures and people today. But it is scientifically verifiable that it is nothing more than a myth. The overwhelming majority of women that engage in consensual intercourse for the first time do not experience any bleeding. This is a simple fact.''
''Many women have already stretched the hymen during the years of life preceding their wedding. This could have been through exercise, bike riding, running, masturbating, using tampons or just self exploration.''''
Seemingly then there would have been a lot more hymenal bleeding in the past, before exercise, bike riding, running, masturbating, using tampons or just self exploration became so widespread, not to mention the earlier marriage ages (on the order of only ~12.5 years old)
the question isnt can we do away with a prohibition based on a mistake, but do a way with a prohibition based on a reality that is no longer as common,.
after all, if it really was always so uncommon, then what was the God talking about in Devarim 22?.
It is quite likely that you are correct that in the past when women married much younger that bleeding was more common. It is also possible that some of that "first time" bleeding was not hymenal but irritation due to dryness and irritation with first intercourse when the young woman was quite likely very nervous and not aroused. regarding Devarim, Maybe that's why the Gemara in Ketubot 46a assume that the "sheets" are referring to witnesses. Regardless, remember that we are not doing away with a prohibition of the Gemara, we are doing away with a prohibition of the Rishonim. I expalined in my post that according to the Gemara one does not need to separate from his new wife unless she actually has bleeding
ReplyDelete